Scorpion and pyro black edition

stolla · 1. August 2011

Hallo
Ich möchte eine black Edition-Pyro von meinem 700--bilden 52 aber beginnt auf einem 4035 Serie Skorpion, etwas Praxis zu erhalten. 6 + 5 D im 1,4 mm der beste Weg, dies zu tun ist oder Yy genauso gut.
Wird es ein Unterschied macht und Verhalten zwischen den Yy und d?
Dieser Motor ist für Henseleit TDR und ich will nicht nur rohe macht (ich habe eine andere TDR mit 4225LE) aber eine gute Kombination aus Leistung, Temps und so weiter.
Auch geben die Skorpion-40-35 im gleichen der Wicklung (6 + 5-d) wird mir ähnliche kv als der Pyro in der gleichen Wicklung?.
Wir gerade einen Yy-Wind auf eine 4025 mit guten Ergebnis also bin ich interessiert, Erstellen einer Kopie der black Edition
Cheers
Translated

Dekker · 1. August 2011

Hallo,
Siehe hier:
http://www.rc-heli.de/board/showthread.php?t=190960

1.4mm 5+6 ist absolut machbar mit etwas Übung, ich bin gerade ein 1.5mm 5+6 am wickeln.
Ich bevorzuge YY, warum? Weil ich mit die von mir gewickelter YY Motoren noch nie eine Absteller bekommen habe. Zitat von Ralph: "Der Jive mag diesen Wickelmodus offenbar besonders gern."
Die 4035 ist schon eine andere Liga als die 4025: Die 4035 hat 10 Pole und die 4025 hat "nur" 8 Pole. Beim 4025 werden alle Zähne von innen nach außen gewickelt. Beim 4035 Muss Mann jedes 2. Zahn von außen nach innen wickeln, das macht es schwieriger.

Bert

stolla · 1. August 2011

Danke Dekker
Nur, damit ich Sie richtig verstanden, wenn ich Pyro nach diesem Schema wind-die ich sehr gern
http://www.powercroco.de/schemamodus12N_YY2.html
aber gleiche Draht (1,4 mm) wie viele Runden ich in dieses Schema machen sollte?
Pyro-Black Edition ist 6 + 5 d so vielleicht 6 Runden als ich 15 bekommen % höhere kv als d auf dieser?
Ich wollen im Bereich von 520 kv bleiben
Cheers

wws2000 · 1. August 2011

Hallo Stolla,
welchen Stator hast du?
Hat der Stator eine blaue oder graue Isolackbeschichtung?
Wenn es ein Blauer ist mußt du vorher die Bleche zählen, gibt da gewaltige Unterschiede von 135 bis 165 Blechen.
Dies macht sich dann in der Drehzahl und Wirkungsgrad bemerkbar.

Gruß Werner

pierre_mousel · 1. August 2011

Hi unknown..
Please count the plates before dismanteling.

If it is a new pyro , the laminations number should be 150 or more and tuning would match the desired result. If less than 140, the work you will invest will not lead to the desired result.

Regards.

stolla · 1. August 2011

Danke Jungs, die ich noch habe, als seine immer noch im Gehäuse überprüfen, aber es ist neue Motoren (ich habe 2 x 700-52 und 1 x 700-45 kv) ist dies ein Problem mit Inkonsistenzen ot tut es unterscheiden sich für die Release-Termin?.

"Thanks guys i still have to check as its still in the casing but it's new motors (i have 2x 700-52 and 1 x700-45 kv) is this a problem with inconsistencies ot does it differ on the release date?."

pierre_mousel · 1. August 2011

Just depends on the fabricaton date. Check stator (color and laminates count), then you can get better informations & tips.

stolla · 2. August 2011

Ok thanks Pierre i will check that out.
One question i still have, if i wire the yy scheme, same turns but different wire thickness, how will this change the kv? My head says thicker wire but same turns give more kv? Is there a formula for this?

pierre_mousel · 2. August 2011

My head says thicker wire but same turns give more kv? Is there a formula for this?

Unfortunatly no formula for this.
Thicker wire gives more efficiency under load (rpm vs. Amps) , but does not allways improve max. efficiency.

Some examples for Pyro here: http://www.powercroco.de/powerpyro.html

Dekker · 2. August 2011

If you do a yy wind it is very easy to find out the kv for a certain number of turns. You only need to wind 6 teeth. If you measure for example kv530 than the finished motor will have a kv of about 535.
I always do this if I do not know what I need.)
0,5mm wire is enough and costs about 15 to 20minutes of work:

stolla · 2. August 2011

Thanks Pierre and Dekker, so D what youre saying is that kv is not influenced by thickness of wire but by the amount of turns only, this is very interesting
So can we assume then that using same amount of turns, thicker wire will give us more torque under load?
I'm trying to understand the concept of 2 similar motors same yy wind but one with let's say 1.6mm wire and another with 1mm, what will be the benefit of thinner vs thicker wire and vice versa or is it perhaps
more important to choose wire that will fill the stators.
Dekker only problem with your method of testing is what takes you 20 mins will probably take me 2 hours

but as i learn i will certainly try that, how do you connect the wires?

I appreciate your comments!
Regards

pierre_mousel · 2. August 2011

but one with let's say 1.6mm wire and another with 1mm,

1.6 will have better efficiency under high load.
Less losses in the copperwire due to decreased resistance.

Kv is also influenced by the connecting of the wiring : Y, D, or YY etc.

stolla · 2. August 2011

Thanks again for your help i understand that the different winds influence kv all a bit different, for now i'm gonna focus on yy as it's easy to convert kv from d as well so next up is the scorp 40-35 in 5+6 yy 1.5-1.6mm. I see Dekker has done this so if u read here can you please comment on the motor, amp draw etc. Also in what heli?

stolla · 20. August 2011

Hi Guys
I now winded a scorpion 4035 exactly to the following yy 5+6 configuration ,http://www.powercroco.de/schemamodus12N_YY2.html
i have tested for shorts between wires and stator and all is good , however when i attached to my p/jazz and a small spektrum rx the receiver burnt out, Can it be a fault in my wiring? or is it not possible the motor can burn out a receiver if i have no shorts
Appreciate your help!

Dekker · 22. August 2011

Very strange, with the PowerJazz the motor circuit is decoupled from the receiver circuit. I do not think the motor is to blame.
For testing purposes I can recommend you take a cheap esc like the Turnigy Plush. It would be a shame if you burn the Jazz due to a fault in the motor.

stolla · 22. August 2011

Hi Dekker hows u? Yeah strange i'm hoping it's not too late! i use the pj cause all my helis on jives and all i had at least it has polarity protection. If my motor wires dont short out surely it should not damage either. Anyway i'll do another test in a couple days when i get time.
BTW what are the other checks to makes ure motor is safe to test, i've tested for shorts between wires and stator as well as betrween all the different pairs, they were all ok, are there any other checks to do to make sure the esc doent get damaged?, Between bullets ohm reading is .2 which is really no different than holding the 2 probes together.

pierre_mousel · 22. August 2011

Genratortest could also be an option.
Drive the motor with a constant RPM source and measure the outcoming voltage on every phase.

stolla · 22. August 2011

Thanks Pierre great idea, i'm gonna try that still learning but great advice from u guys thanks!

stolla · 22. August 2011

Ok i ran it slow drill speed and measured .8v over all bullets, so does that mean the motor is ok and ready to run

pierre_mousel · 22. August 2011

Unless you can make a 1000V test (insulationtest), everthing checked . This should be OK

Scorpion and pyro black edition

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