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lagunero
10.09.2015, 14:08
RC-OLC…

Yes, already some years have gone with this new and exciting experience. Must congratulate Mr Reiner Rose (and team) for the beautiful idea and for putting it into practice.

Start was slow but ambitious; simple rules to reach as much pilots as possible and worldwide. Sounds nice. There was also a nice Forum in which Team and Pilots shared all types of information. It was very active and a good communication place.

Till now, all nice and dreamy… but with time some peculiar things appeared.

First, there was a “private classification” only for German Pilots… OK, that’s already seen as normal, but why a German Classification for a Worldwide competition? … at the same time the helpful and communicative team started also to show silence to emails sent with the only aim to suggest some changes for getting a better system and only some private communications and info was received as a reply. The Forum, still there, has seen its link disappeared from the main page, so no access for newcomers.

The initially simple rule (not to be changed due to limits imposed by full-sized OLC needs; quite understandable) started to see multiple changes in quite wried directions, making the competition quite more complicated and less attractive for newcomers. Getting every year more competitors the rule adapted in such a way that slope could never have an official competition as minimum competitor numbers was raised accordingly over the expected number of active pilots. Not a joke. Rules changed substantially once the season was well started, and not announced before the start as it should be.

Well, after some years competing seriously and trying to gather pilots for OLC competition I have seen how the nice and clean initial spirit has deformed in such a way that I decided not to participate actively in the 2014-15 season as I did the last couple of years and uploaded only part of the flights to keep the interest up in the slope category (the one with fewer active pilots and also as normal terrain is not very in hand here) and as a consequence I have been switching slowly to other different GPS competition (guess which one) and I’m now learning and training in a much more “stable” activity; why? … It’s run by the active pilots, they know what they are talking and ruling about and this way they keep it simple and stable. No need to create protected ghettos; everybody is welcome and it is kept Global and Clean!

It’s a real pity, there are many nice people flying OLC … Why not keep the initial spirit and good communication instead of closing doors? Or perhaps declare it as a German competition and this way it will not be any need to rule against overseas pilots …? It is not my only feeling, and this is the reason for most (if not all) of our (and not only our) pilots abandoning the OLC competition and just uploading some flights now and then… Yes, we got already bored; congratulations if this was your aim!

Yes, RC-OLC…. a very nice idea… Could have been nice despite the many errors in it …

It may sound as an acid critic, but that’s just a resumed point of view which can be seen both as a critic or perhaps better, as a constructive info if correctly read and understood. Of course, I may be totally wrong... but sincerely, I don't think so :-)

Happy flying “in or out of OLC” for everybody and safe landings!

Ticmic
12.09.2015, 23:27
Hi Jose,

as you mentioned already I agree with You:
The system itself is not well designed and the faults cannot be corrected via software.

So my conclusion is, why not make a better system ?

Hope 2 keep in touch and smooth thermals,

lagunero
15.09.2015, 13:48
Thanks Christian

The system works, but not always (that's the problem of using an adaptation of the full-size glider OLC, but that's what we have - for free!). Big sailplanes may not experience the problems, but when it goes into real speed with tight maneuvers, the GPS data and software are not up to the needs and the problems and weak points are clearly shown. There are some online platforms as you know, giving different options to you, so it is up to your taste to choose any of them (including OLC) if you want to have GPS fun. I think they are complementary, but in any of them, taking them to a higher level of complication leads to frustration in some cases.
Keep it simple and have fun!

Cheers
Jose

Frank Schwartz
20.09.2015, 18:49
Hello Jose
I agree to your words. RC-OLC was at first a very great idea.
Bit by bit it lost its attractiveness. RC-OLC has become ever more remote from the realities of the model aircraft.
I did only a few flights this year. My interest is nearly zero.
Greetings from Baden-Baden to Teneriffa
Frank

lagunero
25.09.2015, 14:50
Thanks Frank...

You said it in a few words, it's absolutely true and sad to see the evolution. Wish them all the success, but in the meantime I'll continue flying and having fun, usually with GPS based flights but with much more tactical orientation; makes fun!

Cheers from the Canaries :-)

Maltex
25.09.2015, 15:55
Hallo,
irgendwie ist das hier so ein allgemeines "OLC bashing", Da liest man:



... many errors in it. ...


Und welche?



... sad to see the evolution. ...


Und warum?



... The system itself is not well designed and the faults cannot be corrected via software.


Und wieso nicht?

Soll es denn bessser werden oder geht es eigentlich darum andere Entwicklungen anzuschieben?

Fragt sich
Uwe

Stefan Siemens
28.09.2015, 11:14
Hallo allerseits,

ich habe einigen Probleme hier angesprochen und bin bei den "Machern" des OLC auf offene Ohren gestoßen:

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php/452300-OLC-Verständnis-Fragen?p=3767580#post3767580

Persönlich habe ich nach wie vor folgende Probleme mit dem OLC:

- Die möglichen Leistungen sind viel mehr als beim manntragenden OLC geländeabhängig und das kann schon ganz schön frustrierend sein. Es gibt Beispiele für Startstellen, die aufgrund der Topographie sehr thermikstark sind. Das kann man an den Logs sehen, wenn viele Dreiecke mit sehr wenig Kurbelanteil geflogen werden. Das ist aber nicht zu ändern sondern liegt in der Natur des dezentralen Wettbewerbs.

- Ich finde die 10 Runden Regel nach wie vor zu anspruchsvoll. Ich benötige dafür selbst bei guten Bedingungen im Schnitt ca. 1,5 Stunden Flugzeit am Stück und bei einem Absäufer fängt man von vorne an. Einsteiger werden sich m.E. sehr schwer tun.

- Es hat schon seinen guten Grund, warum Wettkampfregeln der offiziellen Klassen, z.B. F3 ... nur nach Diskussion in Gremien und nur zeitverzögert geändert werden können. Das vermeidet den Eindruck einer geschlossenen oder einseitigen Regeländerung.

Das ändert aber alles nichts an dem Leistungsschub durch OLC und an der Attraktivität.

Es wäre erfreulich, wenn der Starter dieses Beitrags seine Kritikpunkte konkretisieren würde.

So my wish is: please tell us what is wrong with the OLC rules in particular. Generalizations don´t help.
Stefan

lagunero
28.09.2015, 15:10
First, thanks a lot for your inputs, nice to see different opinions ...

I think my text is self-explanatory and clear enough and detailed where it has to be; in case of doubt, perhaps this may arise when there is no experience in flying fast to very fast tasks usually with gliders <2m (usually in a good slope or under a giant cumulus in normal terrain). It is there where errors start. To get a valid triangle, say in class1 there is a start speed limit of ant 60Km/h. The circle has to be approached at no more than 30 Km/h and continue for 5 or 6 secs with a low speed before accelerating... The IGC file shows the speed and "legal" starting speeds are shown as overspeed consistently. It is far much easier to get a valid triangle with a 2m glider than with a 1.5m glider; the speed reduction has been exaggerated, and if using ballast, almost unattainable unless there is a very strong headwind! . To start a triangle with a fully ballasted F3f is very easy but this time, index plays against, and say it this way, an unballasted mini ellipse will get consistently better results than a ballasted Pike precision. To avoid this situation we proposed time ago a different classes competition which would avoid the index which never will be a real and good solution for the many different gliders participating.... but seems to be that OLC team did not like this idea. This is just one of the several bugs around, perhaps the most serious as it jeopardizes a true performance. Needed a lot of experimentation to find out and asking about it I had some answers from some friends but never from OLC, as usual ... This lack of communication never happened before.. and this is another point to be changed in order to keep a friendly climate.

The text has been perfectly understood by some fellow pilots that have been keen and active the last years, agreeing or not with the contents and which answered via backchannel (better than be silent) :-)

As said, everybody is free to agree or not. Probably normal terrain flyers will never notice the problems excepting pilots using small spans in perfect conditions, but slope pilots in good conditions with small span gliders will notice it sooner or later if they fly fast enough :-)

Will not write here about other GPS competitions. This is upon every pilot's freedom.

Good flights and better landings!

Merlin
28.09.2015, 20:39
Hi Jose,

Ich bin auch nicht ganz glücklich mit den OLC Regeln, aber ich habe für mich entschieden, daß es mir egal ist und ich eh nur gegen mich fliegen kann.
Die verschiedenen Locations sind nicht vergleichbar!

Zu Deinem persönlichen Problem möchte ich nur anmerken, daß Du Dich am extremen Rand der Regeln befindest:
*Du fliegst an einem der besten Hänge der Welt, wenn nicht dem Besten. Nur daduch kannst Du extrem ballastieren.
*Du nutzt die Index-Regelung dahingehend aus, daß Du die kleinstmögliche Spannweite fliegst.
*Auch die Lage des SZK ist IMO grenzwertig, unter Nutzung des gesamten Spielraums nicht klar formulierter Regeln, gewählt.

Als ich Deine Flüge gesehen habe, war für mich klar, daß das nicht zu toppen ist - warum soll ich also mitmachen? Das wird noch vielen anderen so gegangen sein. Diese Problem besteht aber nicht nur in der Hangflugklasse, sondern auch im Flachland. Nur noch Elektrosegler, maximale Starthöhen, viele Versuche direkt nacheinander - was soll das?
Und ja, die Art und Weise wie Regeln gemacht und geändert werden, stören auch mich....

Hi Jose,
the problem IMO is, that you have exceptional conditions to fly, and that you are at the limit of the rules. Even a class system wouldn´t solve it, because there are only a few slopes on this planet with similar conditions and only a few pilots who can fly as often you can do it. A class with 5 pilots will not stay alive..
But even when you change the class ;-) the problems will be the same. You will archive 30 triangles in 30min and no one on this planet will be able to set a new record, maybe until they can fly where you fly. A global contest will not work IMO.

Cheers,
Bernd

Gast_36267
28.09.2015, 21:19
Als ich Deine Flüge gesehen habe, war für mich klar, daß das nicht zu toppen ist - warum soll ich also mitmachen?
Bernd

Hallo Bernd,

da kann ich dir leider nicht ganz zustimmen.

Sicher ist der Flugplatz von Jose ideal für diese Runden, jedoch wurden auch bei mir am Zollern diese Rundenzeiten 2011 erreicht.
Desweiteren mit einem ganz normalen F3F VIKOS ohne Ballast und ohne Expertentrimm. Dabei ist der Zollernbuckel bei
Westwind nicht gerade der Wahnsinn wie ein Hahnenmoss oder Seiser Alm oder Rügen oder sonstige Spitzenhänge.
Es ist eher die Flugweise die Runden und die Start Zielposition optimal zu erwischen.

http://rcbeta.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/rc/flightinfo.html?dsId=1490

In Goggle Earth kann ja das Gelände bestens verglichen werden.

Gruß Martin

ps: zur richtigen Zeit am richtige Ort beim richtigen Wetter ist sicher mal Prio 1, aber ob dazu die Küstenkannte, die Alpensteilwand oder
der z.B. Wächtersberg (als Ebene ;-) ) oder auch ein Deich herhalten muss ist eher zweitrangig. Wenns irgenwo ballert ob senkrecht oder
waagerecht wird immer einiges drinn sein.

lagunero
29.09.2015, 13:12
zur richtigen Zeit am richtige Ort beim richtigen Wetter ist sicher mal Prio 1

My two cents here, Martin!!!

By flying MUCH in all conditions, also with calm weather at the slope, one knows the place and how to use it. Not all is the slope or the glider, practice and more practice is more than 80%... and finally, the RULES are to be observed but also to be used in the extent the pilot is allowed to do so :-)

Jose

Gast_36267
29.09.2015, 13:43
Not all is the slope or the glider, practice and more practice is more than 80%...
Jose

;):cool::)