Problem with mould surface.

Hi,

Somehow I always get this surface problem on all my moulds. No matter what wax and gelcoat I'm using... This time og was SW18 and Norpol W70. I have had the same problem with F200 and PAT921. What am I doing wrong? And how do I attach photos from my phone here? 20180406_221348.jpg
 
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WBR
Juri
 
Would you mind to explain in detail what you are doing? Is it about the initial release from the master or after fabricating parts?

Stefan
 

Tern

User
Cleaning

Cleaning

Hi Kjell
Had also problems using plexi moulds.
I forgot to clean the surface bevor waxing.
Now I know that it is necessary to remove all polish with spiritus or acetone.
B.r
Markus
 
The problem is with the mould surface after demoulding from the master. Polishing the surface does not help to improve the parts of the surface that is affected. I have made moulds for 15 years now, and most of my moulds get affected by this problem. The first parts that comes out of new moulds gets the same surface imperfections and needs polishing. When the moulds get used and covered with wax the problem shows less on the parts... The imperfections on the mould surface shows up like a more dull, less shiny area. I have experienced the problem with the following gelcoat/wax combinations:

-SW18 and Norpol W70
-R&G P and TR wax
-F200 and PAT921
-F200 and HM racing Dolphine wax.

Backing epoxy have been L385/H386 or R&G epoxy L with hardener L.

Modus operandi:

All moulding operations are done in a composite lab at work that is temperature and humidity controlled.

Wax:
Before waxing the master gets cleaned with silicone remover or alcohol. (Only silicone free soap and water if it is a plexi-master)The master get waxed 5-8 times. Wax is applied and wiped with new piece of clean cotton cloth after a few minutes. The wax get polished later to shine. The waiting time in between wax layers are at least 6 hours. After last wax layer I wait at least 12 hours before moulding.

Gelcoat:
The gelcoat get mixed by hand in small 100g batches in a disposal cup with a stiring stick only rotated in one direction. After thorough mixing I pour the gelcoat from the cup over on a disposable paper plate without scraping the edges.

Before applying the gelcoat I check that the waxed surface is perfectly shiney and clean. The gelcoat gets applied with an R&G epoxy brush. I start at one end of the positive and only apply the gelcoat in one direction only. When applying the gelcoat I always start the brush stroke on top of already applied gelcoat to make an even coat. I let the gelcoat gel until not sticky to the touch anymore and always apply a second layer of gelcoat after this.

Backing layers
I use a very thin coat of epoxy mixed with cotton flocks, this is just to make sure that the edges don`t have bubbles. The layers are always two layers of 105g aero twill glass. Then I use a heavyer layer of glass and continue with multiaxial carbon and Poraver. The moulds get to harden for at least 15hours before adding backing layer on the Poraver.

After around 48 hours of hardening at around 25 degrees I put the moulds and master in the oven and ramp up 5C/hour up to around 45C and keep for at least 12 hours.

The moulds get demoulded after around a week of hardening. The surface get cleaned with soap and water or alcohol and if needed gets polished with 3M Perfect-it.


What am I doing wrong? I`m in the prosess of making new moulds and need to get to the bottom of this problem. :cry: Currently I`m using SW18 and Norpol W70. The positives are made from plexiglass. Anyone had the same problem, and how did you solve it? Gideon, Arne, Sven care to comment?
 
Hi Kjell
Had also problems using plexi moulds.
I forgot to clean the surface bevor waxing.
Now I know that it is necessary to remove all polish with spiritus or acetone.
B.r
Markus

Maybe, but this is not only when using plexi masters. All masters in other materials have been thoroghly cleaned with both alcohol and silikone remover. I'm told that alcohol should not be used on plexi masters, it will destroy them...
 

Gideon

Vereinsmitglied
Dear Kjell-Sture,

I‘m noticing surface imperfections that look like craters. Is that true? I guess no fabric print-through, but only small dents. Please confirm.
 
Yes there are some nano-craters at around 0.3mm size, never seen this before... The main problem is the dull, non shiney area next to the nano-craters... Btw. I did a small mistake in the description above, the moulds where demoulded before postcuring, due to the use of plexiglass positives...

Kjell-Sture
 

Gideon

Vereinsmitglied
Did you try to polish the dull areas with a dedicated polishing paste?

Wachsfabrik Bad Segeberg, the original manufacturer of M-700 Release Wax aka W 70 (or it's other various product designations), have a compatible polishing compound system called M-50 / M-100 / M-150. M-100 seems to be the right one for your application.

http://www.oskars.biz/de/pastes/m-100-compound/
 
Thanks for the link, Stefan.

I did try to polish with 3M perfect-it, This did not help, the imperfection seems to go deeper... Regarding the nano-craters I will try to degass the SW18 next time, as I think these may be micro airbubbles behind a hair-tin layer of gelcoat? I think they are to small to make a problem on the finished part.

Kjell-Sture.
 
Hi, i've got the same issues some times.

In most cases it is a sloppy mixing of sw18 and hardener.
You allways need to take clean mixing cups and stir without any hurry to avoid bubbles.
Finally you need to fill it into a clean cup and carefully apply it with a soft brush.

Good Luck,
Jodie
 
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