Versand nach Israel

[micbu]

You are wrong, both parties can get information from DHL concerning the shipping. The only thing the addressee can not do is dealing with DHL concerning the insurance of the parcel. Concerning the shipping itself, the addressee can ask the same questions the sender can ask. Asaf should contact DHL himself and only when it is shure that the parcel will not arrive, then he can ask Jörg to complain about a not received parcel and to get the insured amount from DHL.
Asaf should not complain about getting his money back from Jörg. Both confirmed that Jörg has sent the parcel and so he is not responsible anymore for it. He did his work. That is it.
Requesting Jörg to refund the money is totally wrong, that is something I can not stand!

Michael

 

[UweHD]

...You are wrong, both parties can get information from DHL concerning the shipping...

I don't know how far the reciever himself can get with DHL, but the ultimate "Nachforschungsauftrag" can only be initiated by the sender:
http://www.dhl.de/de/paket/hilfe-kundenservice/sendung/nachforschungsauftrag.html
"...Bitte berücksichtigen Sie, dass die Nachforschung durch den Absender zu beauftragen ist..."

So, in this case, how far do you think Asaf as the adressee could get without initiating a "Nachforschungsauftrag"? And to be honest, initiating this by the sender should be the senders' legitimate duty. And I assume that the sender already did so, let's wait and see

P.S.: I don't like Asaf's choice of words either, but that's a different story. Both parties involed should remain calm and get this fixed on a professional level.

 

[asafza]

Dear Asaf,

if you buy goods from all over the world then you should be familiar with the law in all those countries.
The law in Germany for a deal between private persons is:
The seller needs to send the parcel. The shipping is the risk of the buyer. If the parcel gets lost during the shipping...... bad luck for the buyer.
Sorry, that is the rule in Germany.
If the seller is a business person then the shipping is the risk of the seller.
The only thing is if you have requested a certain way of shipping and the private seller shipped by another way, then the private seller is responsible for the shipping also.
Have you requested any special way of shipping? Insurance or no insurance? A special transportation company such as DHL or UPS? If there was no special requirement by you, then the shipping is your risk!
That is the rule here in Germany. Sorry, but that is something you should know.
The seller shipped on your request, so why should the seller be responsible for the shipping?
If there is an insurance and if the transportation company will pay some money for the lost item, then of course, that money will be your money, but not the money you have paid for the goods.
Jörg can proove that he has shipped the parcel. From this moment he is not responsible for the parcel anymore. It becomes your risk at that moment.
If you buy in other countries be aware that the laws are maybe different from what you are used to know from your own country.
Try to fix it yourself, you have the tracking information and so you are able to contact DHL yourself.

Michael

Michael,
i really cant understand this "rule" - "The shipping is the risk of the buyer",
so what you say everyone can send just a blank empty box with no item inside???
and for your question, the seller sad it is insurence shipment for 36 euro, so Yes i asked insurence and tracking and all i got is 45 days with nothing.
i know that when 2 pepole doing busniss they need to help one another and not trying to blaim the aother person.
i am sorry but if you know the "law" so good so you need to know that i cant do nothing from here.
so you say it my problem ??? and if he send it to wrong address or wrong name? i am the blaim ?

it is easy to say then do.
if it was your case i bet you turn the world upside down for your money or for your package,

 

[asafza]

You are wrong, both parties can get information from DHL concerning the shipping. The only thing the addressee can not do is dealing with DHL concerning the insurance of the parcel. Concerning the shipping itself, the addressee can ask the same questions the sender can ask. Asaf should contact DHL himself and only when it is shure that the parcel will not arrive, then he can ask Jörg to complain about a not received parcel and to get the insured amount from DHL.
Asaf should not complain about getting his money back from Jörg. Both confirmed that Jörg has sent the parcel and so he is not responsible anymore for it. He did his work. That is it.
Requesting Jörg to refund the money is totally wrong, that is something I can not stand!

Michael

you know what happen in a case that the package dont find the buyer ??
i tell you, it sends back to the seller, so yes i am complain to Jörg, becuse maybe the package is on it way to him and then i got nothing.
if you know the ruls, you sould know that this is the way things work with losts packages,

i really hope that i will get the package for me and for Jörg.
untill then he is the only person that can help.

 

[asafza]

P.S.: I don't like Asaf's choice of words either, but that's a different story. Both parties involed should remain calm and get this fixed on a professional level.

you are right and i am sorry, but all i hear from jorg that he did me a favor, and he always complain that he did a mistake and all this trouble for 300 euro,
it is not so plesent to hear this , my money is good just like everyones money.

but still you right we need to keep it in a professional level
thanks for this reminder

 

[micbu]

Exactly, and therefore you should well choose your words. If you stay friendly then everybody will be friendly to you.
To answer your questions:
To send an empty box is a beguilement and therefore forbidden.
If the parcel returns to the sender then the goods are still property of the buyer, of you, so that should not be a problem.
You do not need to understand the law in Germany but you have to respect it. Me too I do not understand many laws worldwide, but I respect them when I am concerned.
It is your free choice to buy from abroad, but you should not blame the sender for any bad thing that is beyond his responsibility.
You always complain about your money. What about the money of the sender? Is is not worth the same as yours? He has sent the part on your request, so why should he loose money for just fulfilling your request? He is a private person, that makes a big difference concerning the risk of shipment.
Either you will get the parcel or you will get the money that will be balanced by DHL, but you have absolutely no right to demand a refund of your payment from Jörg, besides he has made something wrong.
Has Jörg made any mistake? Has he sent the parcel to a wrong address? Was the packing not sufficient? If he has not done any mistake, than he will not be responsible for anything that goes wrong with your parcel.
I am sorry for you but that's the game.
If you kindly ask him to claim for a compansation from DHL for the lost parcel, then I am sure that he will do everything necessary.
Just be friendly.


Michael

 

[asafza]

Exactly, and therefore you should well choose your words. If you stay friendly then everybody will be friendly to you.
To answer your questions:
To send an empty box is a beguilement and therefore forbidden.
If the parcel returns to the sender then the goods are still property of the buyer, of you, so that should not be a problem.
You do not need to understand the law in Germany but you have to respect it. Me too I do not understand many laws worldwide, but I respect them when I am concerned.
It is your free choice to buy from abroad, but you should not blame the sender for any bad thing that is beyond his responsibility.
You always complain about your money. What about the money of the sender? Is is not worth the same as yours? He has sent the part on your request, so why should he loose money for just fulfilling your request? He is a private person, that makes a big difference concerning the risk of shipment.
Either you will get the parcel or you will get the money that will be balanced by DHL, but you have absolutely no right to demand a refund of your payment from Jörg, besides he has made something wrong.
Has Jörg made any mistake? Has he sent the parcel to a wrong address? Was the packing not sufficient? If he has not done any mistake, than he will not be responsible for anything that goes wrong with your parcel.
I am sorry for you but that's the game.
If you kindly ask him to claim for a compansation from DHL for the lost parcel, then I am sure that he will do everything necessary.
Just be friendly.


Michael

just to make thing clear,
i did not claim my money, i only secure it by openning a claim becouse after 45 days you can not claim your money any more,
now another thing, you say What about the money of the sender, so i ask, the one real fact is that he got the money,
there is no proof that he send the plane, i dont say he didnt but still the only real fact is the money that flow to his account.
so yes i thinks and this is the benifit when you pay thru paypal, the consideration is more to the buyer.

you can see my money in his account, you can show me his plane ???

still and again, i wish i will get the plane soon and everthing will be ok.
i still want the plane and not the money,

 

[streifi]

Has Jörg made any mistake? Has he sent the parcel to a wrong address? Was the packing not sufficient? If he has not done any mistake, than he will not be responsible for anything that goes wrong with your parcel.
I am sorry for you but that's the game.
Michael

Sorry Michael, but is Jörg your friend, brother, uncle, whatever?

Can YOU PROOVE that Jörg didn´t do anything wrong? Can YOU PROOVE that he didn´t get the parcel by return and is now happy about money and parcel?

I am sure that he did not do that, but I anyway understand asafza. He just wants to make sure that his money is not lost. Would you make it different? Wouldn´t you ask the seller for help, specially if you buy in a different country?

Ok, the number of emails is high, but latest updates on weekly base for example don´t blaim anyone. Asafza is not the bad guy in this game.

 

[micbu]

Asaf, I am sorry, you are wrong.
Yes, of course, it is possible to open a claim. Paypal allows that.
To get the money back from paypal is against German law if Jörg can prove that he has sent the plane to you!
You should respect that. He did a favour to you to send a parcel to Israel and now you punish him.
Do you really think that is fair from your side?
End the claim and wait what is going to happen. If the parcel ist lost, then it is bad luck for you. If there is an insurance, then you will get a refund.
Marcus, I do not know who Jörg is. I do not need to prove anything. Asaf is the one who is accusing Jörg, and so he must proove that Jörg did something wrong.
In Germany everybody is innocent unless you can proove that he is guilty. Not reverse!
And yes, of course I would make it different and I already did.
You say Asaf is not the bad guy in this game? He is! He is not respecting our law, so how would you call that?


Michael

 

[schiwo1]

This thread is getting ridiculus.

The case for resolution is very simple:
The initiator of this thread, Joerg mentioned hat he shipped the parcel by DHL for 36€ This indicates that the parcel is insured at max 500€
The tracking indicated that the parcel did not arrive at its destination by today.
Shit happens from time to time.

So:
The sender (Joerg) may issue a search request and claim an insurance case.
In addition the receiver may raise a claim at Paypal.

Please stop this BS about blaming the other as bad guy. The details about your rights in case of non delivery/packet loss are precisely described in the Terms and Conditions of DHL and Paypal.
Just my 2 cents.
Stephan

 

[asafza]

Michael,
i guess nothing i would say will change your mind, "He is not respecting our law" are you kidding???
what law??? you are taking this too far,
if you didnt understood my point so iguess you have a block on your thinking,

i dont blaim anyone. but i am asuring that my money will not get lost, jeorg need to help, and that it !!!
i have a proof that i paid, Jeorg dont have no proof that he acctualy send the plane rether then a paper that say so.

please i have nothing to add to you because you are not listening.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
streifi,
thank you for your support, i really hope that this thing will end soon and Jeorg and myself will be happy,
really hope i will get the plane or Jeorg get it and refund my money.

thank you
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephan,
you can not be more right,
this issue didnt need to be such a big deal,
DHL and PayPal is a good solid companies that i am sure will make the right thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeorg,
i really dont know why you open this thread and i dont understand your acting,
from the begining you were anti to help and to give info when i asked,
this is ok you dont have to be nice and help,
but you need to help with this issue, sorry but i cant fight your war with DHL.

i really hope that everything will be ok, and ends soon

 

[MAD3007]

I would never send anything to Israel.......... niemals! Gibt nur ärger sowas!

 

[abuss]

I would never send anything to Israel.......... niemals! Gibt nur ärger sowas!

Komischer Beitrag, als obs in D oder sonstwo noch nie Aerger gegeben hätte….

 

[MAD3007]

Also beim Versand innerhalb eines Landes gibts weniger Probleme als wenn man was an den Arsch der Welt schickt. Innderhalb EU ist das ja schon manchmal ein Problem aber Israel ist sicher einfacher als innerhalb Deutschlands was zu verschicken, is klar Eher n komischer Beitrag von dir..... oder willst mich auf die Nazi Schiene drücken? =)

 

[streifi]

Also beim Versand innerhalb eines Landes gibts weniger Probleme als wenn man was an den Arsch der Welt schickt. Innderhalb EU ist das ja schon manchmal ein Problem aber Israel ist sicher einfacher als innerhalb Deutschlands was zu verschicken, is klar Eher n komischer Beitrag von dir..... oder willst mich auf die Nazi Schiene drücken? =)

Hauptsache was geschrieben, nicht wahr? Was für ein Stuss

 

[WeMoTec]

Hab auch selten so eine Stuß gelesen, wie von MAD.
Die Welt geht hinter dem eigenen Jägerzaun weiter. Und ob ich nun nach Israel oder in die Schweiz schicke ist absolut kein Unterschied.

Wir liefern inzwischen in über 60 Staaten, aktuell gibt es einzig in Russland ein paar Probleme wegen neuer Zollgesetze, das ist es aber auch schon.

Beim Hobbyking bestellen, aber Angst haben nach Israel zu schicken...

Oliver

 

[MAD3007]

Klar ist natürlich das absolut gleiche! Mal davon abgesehen wie oft das Paket in Packstationen verteilt werden muss, je öfter umverteilt wird, desto öfter können Fehler passieren.
Es ist ja nicht nur das Versand-Unternehmen an dem Paket dran sondern auch unterschiedliche Institutionen wie z.B. der Zoll usw. da kann doch eher mal was durchrutschen als bei Versand innerhalb D.

aber klar ist ja alles easy! Sieht man ja am Threadstarter, was für einen Stress sowas mit sich bringen kann, vor allem wenn sich der Ausländer nicht mit dem hier geltenden Recht auskennt oder sich nicht auskennen will.


Und ja ich bestell bei Hobbyking und mir ist bewusst was für ein Risiko ich mit dem Kauf dort eingehe, im Gegensatz zur Privatperson kann sich solch eine Firma z.B. bei Verlust des Paketes eher mal leisten für Ersatz zu sorgen als ein Privatmann.

Der Vergleich den du da anstellst ist der aller größte Stuss

 

[micbu]

, "He is not respecting our law" are you kidding???
what law???

No, I am not kidding. The law in Germany is that you as addressee have to take the risk of the shipping from a private sender.
Ask somebody to translate following law if you do not belive me: http://dejure.org/gesetze/BGB/447.html
That is the law here. You do not respect that, you are asking the sender to refund your money, you informed paypal about that. As I already wrote, you have the possibility to do so, but it is not legal to get the money back from paypal. I know, you do not care about that. All what counts for you is that you will get your money back. The rest of the world....... who cares.


Michael

 

[streifi]

No, I am not kidding. The law in Germany is that you as addressee have to take the risk of the shipping from a private sender.
Ask somebody to translate following law if you do not belive me: http://dejure.org/gesetze/BGB/447.html
That is the law here. You do not respect that, you are asking the sender to refund your money, you informed paypal about that. As I already wrote, you have the possibility to do so, but it is not legal to get the money back from paypal. I know, you do not care about that. All what counts for you is that you will get your money back. The rest of the world....... who cares.


Michael

I don´t understand your reaction, Michael. All asafza is looking for is some support from Jörg to get the parcel. WHY is this a problem?? As I understand him Jörg is not the biggest help. From my point of view Jörg is happy to have the money and that´s it. He has absolutely no intention to help asafza to find the parcel ("why should I, I have my money, this idiot is sitting in Israel, he will never find me").

Obviously this is Jörg´s way of doing business and yours as well, because the only thing YOU do is talking about german laws. This is so poor.

And furtheon, where is Jörg???? He started this thread and now he´s gone??!!??

The only chance asafza has to bring this to a positive is claiming paypal, because you can only do that for 45 days. And this is his only possibility to put some pressure on Jörg. Again, I do understand him.

 

[Erdie]

To be honest, I understand him as well. Thinking about sending money somewhere into the world for nothing - I would have been definately pissed of in the same way.
Most of the time I was a buyer instead of a seller. As a buyer I am usually forced to trust the seller first by sending the money. You have more risk as a buyer, not as a seller.